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Scaling Clean Podcast

Episode 56: Eli Andrews, CEO and Co-Founder of civicIQ, on Turning Community Opposition into Dialogue

March 9, 2026

 

Scaling Clean: Eli Andrews, CEO and Co-Founder of CivicIQ

Buy-in from local communities can make or break an energy project. Across the country, developers are encountering organized opposition, misinformation, and political headwinds that can stall permitting long before a project reaches a planning board.

My latest Scaling Clean guest, Eli Andrews, CEO and Co-Founder of civicIQ, is building a new model for community engagement,  rooted in listening, longitudinal dialogue and data-driven testing.

civicIQ helps developers gauge community sentiment, counter misinformation and build genuine local support long before projects break ground.

Here are three takeaways from our conversation.

Opposition isn’t constant. It’s dynamic.

Eli emphasized that community sentiment changes over time, especially in response to political noise. What worked in 2023 may not work in 2025. Developers can’t treat opposition as a constant. It requires ongoing listening and adaptive engagement.

“Magic happens when you invite communities in—even the opposition—and truly include them so that these projects aren’t just helicoptering in and happening to them, but instead give them some sense of agency. They are heard, listened to, and responded to, especially during the design and early stages.”

Invite the community into CapEx-friendly decision-making.

Instead of asking communities, “Are you for or against this project?” civicIQ asks questions that invite participation in design. Pollinator grasses or increasing the buffer zone on the property line? Solar grazing or alternative layouts? When people are included in CapEx-friendly design decisions, the conversation both educates and invites. 

“It reframes the entire conversation beyond, “are you supportive or against?” That's in one sense what we do. We listen, we respond, and we develop roadmaps for what could look like a really successful development in any given community.”

AI may help “re-ground” communities in a shared set of facts.

Eli described research from MIT showing that short conversations with an AI chatbot helped about 20% of conspiracy theorists disentangle from conspiracy beliefs. Inspired by this, civicIQ built AI agents trained on a narrow, fact-checked knowledge base about clean energy to engage people who believe misinformation about solar, wind, and storage. 

Early results suggest that transparent AI conversations can sometimes be more effective than person-to-person debate, helping people explore credible sources and reconsider their views. The goal isn’t persuasion, but what Eli calls “narrative regrounding” or bringing communities back to a shared set of facts.

CiviqIQ is still testing this and it isn’t out of the lab yet. 

“We're not trying to persuade or convince anyone of anything. Our approach to this is something we call narrative regrounding. The idea is that we could simply reground some communities, perhaps even our country, in a shared set of facts about something that matters.”

Why This Conversation Matters

Community engagement isn’t a box to check before permitting. It’s the first step to take before a project ever enters a community.

Below are some of Eli’s reflections: 

  • National narratives are shaping local outcomes. That’s one reason why community opposition is ever-changing, and developers must adapt with it.

  • Projects that invite communities in, early and authentically, have a better chance of long-term success.

  • People don’t always trust people, which is why some Americans are turning to transparent conversations with AI for information. What opportunities does that open for how we engage communities?

As Eli put it, projects shouldn’t “helicopter in and happen to communities.” They should be built with them.

Listen to the episode on Apple, Spotify, Radio Public, Amazon Music, and iHeart.

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Overview

Introduction

Melissa Baldwin:

Buy-in from local communities can make or break an energy project. Across the country, developers are encountering social and political opposition. Misinformation can block permitting and empower organized resistance online.

My guest today is Eli Andrews. He's the CEO and co-founder of civicIQ, a nonprofit with a new model for local community engagement. civicIQ helps developers gauge community sentiment, counter misinformation, and build genuine local support long before clean energy projects reach a planning board.

Eli, welcome to the show.

Eli Andrews:

Thanks, Melissa. It is great to be here.

Inside civicIQ and the Power of Listening

Melissa Baldwin:
We're glad to have you. I think this is such a fascinating topic, and I'm excited to dive into this work with you. First, I want to start by just having you tell us about your company. Tell us about civicIQ and what you do there.

Eli Andrews:
Sure. Everything we do, Melissa, starts with listening. And I think that's likely one of the differentiators in the space. Our first job whenever we're going into a community is to listen to what people have to say.

We do that a lot of different ways, but all digitally, all on SMS and email and social media. Based on what people are telling us, it helps us share with the broader stakeholders for a renewable energy development what that community might want or need, or not want, in terms of developing utility-scale renewable energy.

So that's what we do. And sometimes that is in the flavor of going out with some CapEx-friendly questions to the community for input. So there's this proposed solar farm in your community. If you could choose between the following, like planting some pollinator grasses underneath the panels, increasing the buffer zone on the property line, between the property line and the panels, or solar grazing, things like that, what would you prefer?

And what we found is that when we go out asking questions like that, not only do we provide education in the form of the questions themselves, but the community feels invited into the process. And so it kind of just reframes the entire conversation beyond, “Do you support, or are you against?”

Why civicIQ Goes Beyond Traditional Polling

Melissa Baldwin:
I want to ask you what makes this model different than, say, traditional polling that a developer might do when they go into a community. How is this approach different?

Eli Andrews:
It's a great question. I think it's mostly different because it's longitudinal in nature. It takes place over time. These are conversations. They're not static, one-off surveys.

So there are surveys within what we do, but the conversations we have with folks develop over time. And so in that way, we're also able to, when we're listening to what people say in the community, for example, and there are really clear trends of misinformation about a particular issue, maybe that solar panels cause cancer or something like that, then, if it's appropriate and in partnership with our stakeholders, we will go out and provide just high-quality facts and information to try to reground communities in a shared set of facts.

So it's not only listening. It's really a two-way conversation that takes place over time.

The Power of Trusted Local Messengers

Melissa Baldwin:
And I'm curious, too. I want to understand the messenger, right? I know that the message matters, but the messenger matters as well. So when you go in and have these conversations, who is the messenger?

Eli Andrews:
We've had the great fortune of being able to read incredible research that's been done on this, some of it by your firm, others by partners we work with, like Rural Climate Partnership, where they're really listening to people and looking to understand the kinds of personas and people that they listen to in their community.

Of course, farmers and ranchers and veterans and school superintendents, people like that, are really important as messengers. So one of our approaches when we go out with a story that is meant to combat misinformation, one of the ways that we do that is we don't say, “Hey, this is the truth.”

We go out and have someone tell their story. So we're not telling our stories, civicIQ or one of our brands. But it's actually bringing that rancher or that veteran and interviewing them and telling their story either in images, in text, or in video.

Melissa Baldwin:
One of the things I always like to ask our guests is, "Hey, you're a CEO now. How did you get to where you are today? What was that journey for you?"

The Difference Between Starting a Company and Leading One

Eli Andrews:
I am a founder by nature. I swear it's wired into my genetic code or something. I look out in the world, and I see things that can be fixed, and I want to build an organization around a solution. Or I see a gap, and I want to create a solution for it and create value. And for me, that's always mission-driven. That's just my orientation.

But that part of my journey to becoming a CEO is innate. However, I actually had to learn how to become a strategic leader. That was a disciplined effort and involved a whole bunch of mentors and a whole bunch of study and a whole bunch of practice and a whole bunch of making mistakes.

In that sense, I learned how to be a CEO. I think I'm a founder by nature and a CEO by discipline and by study.

Just for some examples of what I mean by that, when I was a young CEO, I thought it was really important to surround myself with people who were really loyal to me. And I had to learn that it is so much more valuable to be surrounded by multiple perspectives and people who are ready and willing and able to speak up, because steel sharpens steel.

And so that was learned. That was not innate, as with so many other aspects of that.

The Mentor Who Changed Eli Andrew’s Approach to Leadership

Melissa Baldwin:
You make a great point. You mentioned mentors. Can you recall any specific mentors and anything that they taught you that you want to share with our audience?

Eli Andrews:
Yeah, I'm really excited to actually share about one of those mentors, because that's what was on my mind when I was saying that. His name is Al Vasiri. He is a retired professor at Penn State, and he taught this capstone course in strategic leadership.

I was tapped a few years back at Penn State to bring sustainability as an approach to strategic leadership and actually take over his class. And I wasn't sure at the time, but the first thing I did was I said, “Hey, could I take your class before I agree to that?”

So I took Al's class, and my goodness, it was one of the most humbling things I ever did. I had to slowly let go of so many things that I know or think I know about strategy and leadership and just immerse myself in someone who had dedicated their whole life to the discipline of understanding this.

So I had the great fortune to take his class and then agreed to step in and bring some of the learnings from our industry, from the clean energy industry, into that graduate course. And it's just so wonderful. Right now, that course is a blend of everything that is the legacy that Al gave me, along with insights from our work on the clean energy transition.

Unlearning the Instinct to Firefight

Melissa Baldwin:
You mentioned you had to unlearn things. Can you think of something specific that kind of got flipped on its head for you?

Eli Andrews:
Yeah, totally.

So first of all, instinctually, when there is a problem, when there's a fire burning, I'm up. I want to just tactically dive in and go solve it and go fix it. And then the problem, of course, when that's your instinct, is that by the time you're halfway done putting out one fire, another one pops up over here and over there and over there.

And so one of the things I learned is that even within the heat of tactical firefighting, just how to pause, lift my head up, scan the horizon, understand where we're going, align the team, and make sure we're clear on goals before jumping back in. And then ideally, not jumping back into that tactical mode.

Melissa Baldwin:
You made a great point about tactical firefighting and what your mentor taught you there. I'm curious, that course that you mentioned, is that available to the public, or is that only for grad students?

Eli Andrews:
It's a good question. A lot of people take it. The course that I'm teaching now is called BA 865. You can go find it on Penn State. It's the capstone course in a master's program called Strategic Management and Executive Leadership. But other people enroll in it, like certificates. So it may be available just as a one-off as well.

The Leadership Advice Eli Andrews Would Give His Younger Self

Melissa Baldwin:
All right, so let's pretend that a time machine is invented and you can go back in time to the point where you started this company. What advice would you give your younger self?

Eli Andrews:
Push power outward and downward. I mean, harness wisdom from everywhere on your team, and especially don't become a problem solver.

This was hard for me because my nature is to see a problem and want to go fix it. And there are so many problems with that as a leader. When you do that, you actually disempower your team. You actually create a dependency on yourself as a problem solver. And then that, of course, prevents you from doing the work that is critical, which is that strategic leadership perspective of stepping back, building the business for the future, and analyzing where things are at.

And it leads the team to become stronger, because if you don't let people succeed on their own and fail on their own and do it over and over, you're actually taking away an opportunity for them to learn and grow.

And so that's why it's counterintuitive, but it's one of those simple counterintuitive things that make so much sense and that require us to step back and just intentionally implement the practice.

How Community Attitudes Toward Renewables Changed After 2024

Melissa Baldwin:
So you mentioned social trends just now. I want to talk more about that. I want to talk about community engagement and specifically how attitudes toward renewables have changed in recent years. So you've been following this closely. What have you noticed in some of the data and the conversations that you're looking at?

Eli Andrews:
The easiest one to point out is just pre- and post-presidential election in 2024, in this current administration. There was a marked shift in what people were talking about.

We do quantitative analysis, too, of the percent of people who support, oppose, or are on the fence toward solar, wind, and battery storage in a given place. That percentage of opposition increased dramatically between pre-November 2024 and post-November 2024.

Interestingly, perhaps not surprisingly, many of the things that are shared and spoken and repeated by people are repeating what our president says. And unfortunately, much of that is misinformation. So the prevalence of misinformation has increased.

And I don't know that that's the cause, but I just see the verbatim responses from people. And so that has changed. Then, of course, along with some of the policies around that, although even if the policies aren't necessarily impacting the local development as much as many people think, the narrative is, and the dialogue and the things that people are talking about are very much impacted by the national noise, is what I would call it.

I think what we do in our work in the siting communication sphere is really about signal and really about connecting with people and understanding and communicating value. But the noise broke through. That was what I would say in 2024 and 2025, and it impacted both how much support there was in a given community and what people were talking about, and what kinds of misinformation were trending as well.

The Farmland Misconception and the Reality Behind It

Melissa Baldwin:
On that topic, what are the most common misconceptions that you see out there driving opposition?

Eli Andrews:
I'll share the most common one that I think is the most challenging one as well, because it's rooted not solely in misinformation, but more in conservative and rural values. And that's the sense that people have that they're giving up farmland to make way for utility-scale solar and wind and battery storage.

And that one, I think, is the most important one to focus on because it's really authentic. Its core is a genuine concern that people have about their way of life, about their identity, about the place they live, about how the place they live looks, how their dad and mom and grandma grew up. And it's about those things, which are very real.

And so that one to me is the most important one, one, because it's the most prevalent point of opposition that we find when we're listening to people. And two, because a lot of times what we find is that part of the reason people have that sense is that they haven't been exposed to things like pollinator grasses planted underneath the solar arrays.

So something like that, even just as simple as an image or short video of that, can actually just show people how farmland and utility-scale solar can coexist at the same time.

And for us, that starts with listening and then asking people these questions that are questions that educate at the same time. Like, what if we were to plant pollinator grasses, and this is what it looks like?

And then we get someone. You talked about a messenger. For that one, I like the neighboring farmer whose crop yields increased because those pollinators were planted underneath. So it's about the community and creating this ecosystem around utility-scale solar, wind, and battery storage.

For me, and this is what inspires me, it is this vision of this industry as this transformative force that can come in and create new value, re-enrich the soil, increase crop yields, and bring money into these communities, both in community benefit agreements and in, like I said, the crop yields and the jobs and all of those pieces.

So as a transformative force, when it's done well and when it's done right. And of course, it's not always done well and right, which is a challenge that we need to work on as communicators with the industry, with developers as well, because they want to do it right. Sometimes they just don't know how.

What Actually Changes People’s Minds

Melissa Baldwin:
Yeah, and especially with agrivoltaics, as I understand it, not every site is ideal for sheep or grazing or pollinator gardens. But we've noticed the same trend that you talked about, this feeling that a part of their identity is at risk and that they're giving up this farmland.

And we also notice the same thing, that in communicating that these two things can coexist, you can move the needle a little bit. I guess my question for you is, do you see the needle move when you do that? When you show them the images, can you say a little bit more about that?

Eli Andrews:
Yeah. When it comes to things like that, we don't guess about the needle. We go out and test rigorously.

So when I mentioned the five-second video of pollinator grasses under solar arrays, I mentioned that because that is an experiment that we ran very intentionally, with super rigorous data analytics, with a control group and a treatment group.

So what we were testing there is, does this image change how people respond to the statement, “To what degree do you agree with the statement that farmland and solar panels are incompatible?”

So along that scale, we showed people this video and a whole bunch of others, and then some people none, and that particular video literally moved the needle.

How civicIQ Is Using AI to Counter Misinformation

Melissa Baldwin:
Is there anything that was really surprising that you found when you were listening to these communities? Or anything surprising that you learned from your research?

Eli Andrews:
I'm going to share something that I find very surprising, and it's actually impacting how we're thinking about what we call narrative regrounding, and it's going to get us into a discussion about artificial intelligence.

The research that I found so kind of shocking and delightful was research that I came across from MIT and a number of other American universities. It was about conspiracy theories.

And what they did is they found and recruited a whole bunch of people who were entrenched in a broad range of conspiracy theories. I mean, from flat-earthers to COVID vaccine conspiracy theories, a whole big, broad range.

And what they did is they had these people sit in dialogue with a large language model, with basically a version of ChatGPT. And they found that through sustained, pretty short but sustained conversation, about 20% of people who were entrenched in conspiracy theories got disentangled from them.

That rate, 20%, I found just phenomenal. I mean, we work really hard to move the needle 20% on anything we do, as you know, Melissa.

So what we did is we went and started building artificial intelligence agents that were fully trained on a very narrow knowledge base. They were trained up on a very narrow knowledge base about clean energy and about facts.

Every fact was sourced with something very trustworthy and recognizable by people, like a USA Today article or something like that. So we meticulously created a knowledge base and built an agent around it to go and interact with people because I was curious: could we do the same thing for misinformation about wind and solar and battery storage?

And the short answer is that we can. And we're still trying to understand why that is, but people engaging with a kind of disembodied machine that just kind of has facts but is still conversational seems to be more impactful than person-to-person conversations in this particular context when people are rooted in misinformation or conspiracy theories.

And so we are right now engaging folks, particularly the opposition, people who are opposed and engaged in some kind of misinformation about wind, solar, and battery storage, to have a conversation and draw their own conclusions.

I'll just say that the initial results are promising, and our approach to this is not persuasion. We're not trying to persuade anyone or convince anyone of anything. Our approach to this is something we call narrative regrounding.

The idea is, if we could simply reground some communities, perhaps even our country, Melissa, in a shared set of facts about something that matters.

So that's what we're excited to explore. We're still testing this. Like anything, we're not going to bring this out of the lab until we know. And we're also very transparent with people. The first thing it says is, “I'm an artificial intelligence, an AI agent.” So it's very conversational, but it's very transparent that people are talking to an AI agent.

Why the AI Is a Gateway, Not the Messenger

Melissa Baldwin:
I'll be curious, as you do this research, to see if you get a solid direction on the types of trustworthy messengers that perform the best in this work. Like, is it the USA Today article? Is it a professor at this university? Is there a local university connection that matters more?

And so I'd be really excited to learn more about that when you have the information.

Why Carbon Capture Is So Hard to Communicate

Melissa Baldwin:
Excellent. So we talked a little bit about AI. I want to continue that conversation in a new light, though. We want to talk about marketing communications, which is what we do at TigerComm. We're a marketing communications and PR firm. But my question for you is, what is civicIQ's toughest marketing communication challenge that you're facing right now?

Eli Andrews:
Well, I'll give you two answers to that.

One is an answer that I'm really excited about because we're in the early stages of working with a new client. And this is a new client in a totally different space. And that space is carbon capture and storage.

And it turns out that they have many of the same challenges and concerns, not identical, but many of the same challenges and concerns that we have with solar and wind and battery storage in that it's community opposition that is shutting them down. I would say that is a marketing challenge, and I don't know what the story is there.

Melissa Baldwin:
No, that's a great question, because it really does depend on the company, the community, the location, their history, what they have been doing there before, what their knowledge of this is, and is there any economic benefit that it's bringing?

Eli Andrews:
But yeah, the second marketing challenge is a little closer to home. What we do at civicIQ is so geeked out. It's so rooted in data and data analytics and all of this stuff. And I love all the data and stuff.

I find sometimes that actually just having this crisp, concise, marketing-friendly version of what we do is a constant challenge. I'm thinking about that because I don't want to make it seem less nuanced and complex than it is. But I also want to really communicate what the value is in a way that people understand that what we do is very different than traditional surveying, and it's very different than traditional comms.

We segment our audiences, so we never send the same message to any group. We've got our supporters, we've got our opposition, we've got people on the fence, and we've got different gradations within there. Depending on where you are, you get a unique message and experience with us.

It's complicated in some ways. In the other sense, it's simple. So that, I would say, is another marketing challenge that's occupied my mind these days: how do we communicate about that unique value in a way that shows how simple and powerful it is and without throwing under the bus how it's rooted in nuanced and complex data?

Standing Out in a Sea of Sameness

Melissa Baldwin:
That's a great question. My top-of-the-line response for you would be one of the things that I noticed, I just recently did an audit of the top 100 cleantech companies, and I was looking at them actually to see what AI knows about them, because SEO is being replaced by AI search in a big way and quickly.

For these large language models, when they go out and do their training, they create a memory. And so the memory is static. It doesn't change. And it's only when you tell AI to do a live search that it will find differentiators for your company.

One of the things I noticed in this research was that a lot of companies are so obscure in using buzzwords to describe themselves that it's really hard for people and for machines to differentiate who they are.

Every company in the energy transition is pursuing a clean energy transition. Everybody is bringing power to people who need it. And so my advice is to be really specific if you can.

And the other piece of advice is who you are, what you do, and how you're different. Those are the key pillars of your key messaging: who you are, what you do, and how you're different. But not being afraid to quantify with data that difference in something that is specific and measurable.

That's another really helpful way that companies can stand out from the crowd: be specific and measurable, and also use specific data, but also tell a story. That's the other way that we see that people can really connect.

Books and Podcasts That Inspire Eli Andrews

Melissa Baldwin:
So I want to continue here. The next section of our interview is on learning and development. You mentioned the professor that was your mentor. But are there any books or podcasts that you would recommend to our listeners?

Eli Andrews:
Yeah, well, if anyone hasn't come across Reimagining Capitalism in a World on Fire by Rebecca Henderson, it's masterful.

Many stories and examples of incredible transformations. We're talking transformations like how DONG, Danish Oil and Natural Gas, became Ørsted. And not all, of course, about clean energy, but just great research chock-full of stories about companies who have reimagined what it means to do business and how to do business, and how to replace old-moving systems with newer technology and better ways forward that don't destroy our world and our capacity to thrive in it along the way.

So it's just a masterful collection of stories about that.

The other, in terms of podcasts, is this: from the very early days, even before ChatGPT, I've been a student of artificial intelligence. And I believe that we are on the brink of Industrial Revolution-scale change in a much shorter timeframe.

There's a podcast that has an overview of the history of the development of artificial intelligence. It's called The Last Invention. It's by Longview. I think it's a must-listen for anyone who hasn't had the chance to be exposed to the history of how artificial intelligence developed and then the recent history of the breakthroughs that have led to where we're at.

And it's great because their messengers in this are the people who built it, including their new concerns now that it's actually working. And so I think it only has about seven or eight episodes, but it's just phenomenal for anyone who wants to hear that history and see what we might be on the brink of.

Why Leaders Must Build for the Future While Running Today’s Business

Melissa Baldwin:
Those are great recommendations. Thank you, Eli. My next question, this is a simple question. Do you think that success relies upon what a company chooses to do or what they choose not to do?

Eli Andrews:
I believe that success, particularly within a strategic leadership framework, is the challenge of maintaining the current business that we have while building the business of the future.

And how much attention to give to doing things the way they are and keeping the lights on now, and how much attention to give to the business of the future that we know we're going to have to build in order to remain relevant as the world changes. Because if you just keep doing what you've always been doing, sooner or later, you're going to become extinct because the world's going to change without you.

As a leader, just navigating the tension between those two points, how to keep the current business going while building the business of the future.

The 5 AM Routine That Powers Strategic Work

Melissa Baldwin:
What about performance and well-being? Is there anything that you do at work or in your personal life to maintain your ability to perform as a CEO on a daily basis?

Eli Andrews:
I do. Three to four days a week, when the world doesn't interfere in other ways, I get up at five in the morning. And before I even look at a cup of coffee or a cup of tea, I go down and put on a weight vest and do a super intense 20- to 30-minute workout.

And then I have a kind of contemplative time of reflection and prayer. And then I read. I study. I go find a new book. I go find a new podcast. And then I do my most important strategic work.

And when I do that, which is many days of the week, I've gotten the things that I care most about done way before my first call ever starts, because once my calls start, it's kind of too late. Then we're all in the weeds, as we have to be. You know what I mean?

I also have such a robust family life. I have a 15-year-old daughter who I adore and my wife. And so I stop working, for the most part, by five, by 5 PM. Sometimes there are things I have to deal with, but I am pretty good about that.

Why Community Engagement Works Best When People Feel Included

Melissa Baldwin:
Nice, that's great advice. My final question: Is there anything else that you'd like to share with our listeners that we haven't talked about already, Eli?

Eli Andrews:
I would just say this: opposition is not a constant. It's dynamic. So the same advice I gave to myself of pushing power outward and downward and harnessing insights from everywhere, I believe, applies in this context.

And what I mean by that is inviting these communities to participate in the design of these projects. Magic happens when you invite them in, even the opposition.

By inviting them in, these projects are no longer something that's just helicoptering in and happening to them. Instead, they have a sense of agency. They feel heard, listened to, and responded to, especially during the early design phase.

Making Community Engagement Practical and Cost-Effective

Melissa Baldwin:
That's a great point, Eli. Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. I'm a skeptical developer, and I ask, "Wouldn't that cost too much? Or is it impossible to make everyone happy?" What would your response be to a developer who's heard this but doesn't think it's realistic or achievable?

Eli Andrews:
Yeah, well, I would say you're really strategic about the way you do that in CapEx-friendly ways. You don't go and promise to only build on rooftops and things that can't be done.

You go out and do things that you know you can do. Like, it's an area where you know you can plant pollinator grasses and you know that you have budget in this project to be able to do that. So it's very strategic as well. It's not open-ended.

Yes, you ask open-ended questions, but you combine that. And that's why it requires partnerships with developers as well, to know what can be done, what there is budget for, and then invite the input in on CapEx-friendly design changes that can benefit from community input.

Melissa Baldwin:
Terrific. This has been so fun, Eli. I've really enjoyed getting to know you better and learning about your technology. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a pleasure.