Scaling Clean: Jan Andersen on Why Clean Energy Needs to Start Playing to Win

In this episode of Scaling Clean, I sat down with Jan Andersen, CEO and founder of Jubilee Transmission, a small but fast-moving transmission developer focused on building transmission lines that help interconnect systems and shore up grid reliability.

Jan’s work sits at the center of one of the biggest bottlenecks in clean energy right now: the grid is running out of room. Experts estimate the U.S. will need to double or triple transmission capacity by 2050, and by early 2025, the interconnection queue had grown past 2.6 terawatts of proposed generation and storage, nearly double today’s total installed grid capacity.

Here are his big three points:

Opposition is playing to win, while clean energy is playing to be right.

Jan believes the clean energy industry has spent too long assuming it will win on merit. Our mission is “noble,” our technology is sound, and the facts are on our side.

But this mindset creates an opening for opposition to organize and win locally. Developers often underestimate how quickly local resistance can take shape when communities feel ignored or dismissed.

“We as an industry love to show up with fact sheets… but it just doesn’t work.”

Transmission is hard because of routing, land, and stakeholder alignment.

Unlike generation projects that may touch one or two counties, transmission lines often cross five or six counties (and sometimes multiple states). 

Jan explained that linear infrastructure development is a problem of siting, landowner negotiations, and routing complexity.

“If you’ve got to tack around somebody on a transmission line… every mile you have to do that is another three, four million dollars.”

He also said transmission can face less opposition when developers site projects strategically (e.g. by building in established transmission corridors rather than proposing entirely new pathways).

“If you site it correctly… in a transmission corridor, next to an existing line, the impact tends to be a lot smaller.”

Clean energy isn’t spending enough on community engagement or politics.

The industry isn’t investing enough to protect projects from local opposition and moratoriums. Renewable infrastructure is backed by major capital, but developers often hesitate to invest in the “soft costs” that ultimately determine whether a project gets penciled in.

“God forbid somebody spends… the cost of a turbine annually on local community engagement.”
Companies mention they might not want to invest in community engagement because they don’t want to be political, but as Jan said, “Any type of infrastructure is political by nature.”

“It is pay to play. And if you don’t pay, you don’t get to play.”

Why This Conversation Matters

For me, this episode highlights several points about transmission and community engagement:

• Permitting success depends on a community engagement strategy. The industry can’t assume it wins because it’s “right.” It has to be willing to compete.
• Early development is where projects are won or lost. Routing decisions, landowner relationships, corridor choices, and early outreach determine whether projects stay on track.
• Creating meaningful relationships with communities isn't optional. If developers don’t invest in community relationships and politics, they should expect more moratoriums, cancellations, and delays.

Listen to the full conversation on Apple, Spotify, Radio Public, Amazon Music, and iHeart.

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Overview

• Introduction
• What Jubilee Transmission Does: Shorter Lines, Faster Development
• Becoming a CEO: Flipping the Coin and Building a Flat Organization
• The Role of a CEO: Building Teams and Knowing When to Step Back
• Mentors Who Shaped the Journey: Early Lessons and Sarah Webster
• Advice to a Younger Self: Travel, Instinct, and No Regrets
• Clean Energy’s Blind Spot: Community Opposition, Politics, and Industry Challenges
• Transmission Siting and Permitting: How Linear Development Differs
• Permit Reform and the Current Administration: A Cautious Optimism
• Hiring at Jubilee: Culture Over Credentials
• Marketing Without a Marketing Team: Relationships and Industry Network
• Recruiting, Interns, and Building From Berkeley
• Learning and Development: Local Knowledge and Lessons from Experience
• Work-Life Balance: Protecting Time With Family
• Keeping the Team Motivated: Ownership, Culture, and Team Engagement
• Climate Optimist or Pessimist: Challenges, Realism, and Hope
• Closing Remarks

Introduction

Melissa Baldwin:
The U.S. grid is running out of room.

Experts say we’ll need to double or even triple transmission capacity by 2050 to meet energy demand and reliability goals. By early 2025, the interconnection queue had grown past 2.6 terawatts of proposed generation and storage. That’s nearly double the total installed capacity on the grid today.

My guest, Jan Andersen, is one of the people working to change that. As the CEO and founder of Jubilee Transmission, Jan was part of the team that brought on the SunZia and Western Spirit transmission lines.

Jan, welcome to the show.

Jan Andersen:
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Melissa Baldwin:
Excellent. So we always start our shows by asking about your company. Tell me a little bit more about Jubilee Transmission and what you do.

What Jubilee Transmission Does: Shorter Lines, Faster Development

Jan Andersen:
Yeah, we are a small transmission developer that was founded about two and a half years ago by a handful of people who had been working in transmission in various capacities.

I came from Pattern Energy, and as you mentioned, I had the pleasure of working on SunZia and Western Spirit. Others came from NextEra and a few other Pattern Energy colleagues.

For a while, we had been talking about looking at the grid more holistically, rather than just from a generation perspective. Instead, we look at it from a utility and system need perspective.

We focus on building primarily shorter transmission lines—typically 50 to 100 miles—that can interconnect systems or help shore up reliability as load growth increases over the coming decades.

That’s really how we came about. We were fortunate to find people who believed in that vision, and we were able to raise capital to begin development.

Our focus is on early-stage development. We take on risks that utilities typically cannot, such as land acquisition and environmental studies, and we work to de-risk those projects for utilities and other potential buyers.

We can take projects all the way through development if needed, but typically we do not own or operate them. Utilities are best positioned to operate transmission assets, and we focus on development, so it’s a good match.

Melissa Baldwin:
So I’m curious—are your customers utilities, developers, or both?

Jan Andersen:
It’s a bit of both. Ultimately, the end customer is usually the utility. But since we focus on early-stage development, we sometimes partner with larger developers—like Pattern Energy, LS Power, or GridLiance.

They may acquire a project at an earlier stage and take it through completion, or we may take it further ourselves. We’re flexible in that regard.

Our main priority is to develop projects as quickly as possible and get them into the hands of the entities that will operate them.

Melissa Baldwin:

Well, on that note of speed, we know interconnection queues are a huge challenge. So you’re helping add capacity and connect projects to the grid. I can see the value there.

Jan Andersen:
Yes.

Becoming a CEO: Flipping the Coin and Building a Flat Organization

Melissa Baldwin:
So how did you become a CEO?

Jan Andersen:
We flipped a coin.

No, I’ve been in this business for almost 20 years, and like most people, I’ve progressed into leadership roles over time.

My co-founder and I each bring different strengths. His expertise is in origination, power marketing, and technical development. Mine is more focused on greenfield development, permitting, and organizational structure.

We run a very flat organization. The CEO title sounds nice, but we’re a small company, so I spend a lot of time in the field as well.

Everyone contributes across roles. No one says, “That’s not my job.” We’re a team of 13 people, and we all work together to solve problems. That’s one of our strengths, and it’s been working well for us.

The Role of a CEO: Building Teams and Knowing When to Step Back

Melissa Baldwin:
Actually, on that note, I want to ask you: what do you think the role of a CEO should be in a company?

Jan Andersen:

That’s a good question. I think it depends very much on the company itself.

If we take Jubilee as an example—and based on my experience with other startups, even outside the energy space—I think an early-stage CEO’s job is to build a really strong team.

It’s also about working with investors and shareholders, setting the tone and culture for the company, and not being afraid to get your hands dirty and lead by example.

Sometimes it also means acting as the head of HR. It’s a bit of everything, but it’s also about understanding when to step in and when to step back. As a company evolves, that role changes.

I had the pleasure of working for Mike Garland at Pattern Energy. He was a fantastic CEO—very personable—and I truly believe he knew everyone’s name in an organization of 600 people.

At the same time, he was excellent at delegating responsibilities to his leadership team and focusing on high-level priorities—working on the business rather than in the business.

Mentors Who Shaped the Journey: Early Lessons and Sarah Webster

Melissa Baldwin:

Speaking of that, looking back at your career, are there any mentors who stand out? Anyone whose lessons you’d want to share with our audience?

Jan Andersen:
Yes, I’ve been very fortunate. I could name quite a few.

Early in my career, in my twenties, I was still figuring things out. A family friend who had been very successful took me under his wing. He gave me a lot of responsibility early on and allowed me to make mistakes.

He also knew when to step in and guide me, which was important. That balance—giving space to learn but providing guardrails—was incredibly valuable.

As I transitioned into the energy sector, one person who stands out is Sarah Webster. I’ve worked with her twice, and we’ve built a very strong relationship.

At one point, I was part of the team at Wind Capital Group, working on permitting, outreach, and marketing. As the company grew, the role became bigger than my experience at the time.

Sarah was brought in, and it was absolutely the right decision. She’s taught me a great deal—not just about the technical aspects of the work, but about operating within a large organization, managing both up and down, and navigating complex environments.

She’s an incredible resource in terms of knowledge, experience, and network.

Advice to a Younger Self: Travel, Instinct, and No Regrets

Melissa Baldwin:
That’s great. If you could go back and give advice to your younger self, what would you say?

Jan Andersen:
It probably depends on the stage of life.

At that earlier stage, I might have told myself to pay a bit more attention in school and maybe pursue a degree in finance.

That said, I don’t tend to look backward that way. I believe we are where we are because of a mix of choices, circumstances, and luck. I feel fortunate to be where I am today.

I’ve generally made decisions based on what felt right, rather than what looked right on paper. That approach has worked well for me.

For example, after college, I traveled for two years. I took on some debt and had to work to pay it off later, but I don’t regret it.

People asked why I didn’t go straight into a traditional job. My answer was always that I could do that anytime, but I wouldn’t always have the chance to travel and have those experiences.

That’s how I tend to approach life.

Melissa Baldwin:
That’s incredible. You got to travel the world after school.

Jan Andersen:
I spent about 10 months working on a cattle station in the Australian outback—handling cattle, shearing sheep, that kind of work. It was a great experience.

Clean Energy’s Blind Spot: Community Opposition, Politics, and Industry Challenges

Melissa Baldwin:
That’s fascinating. When we spoke earlier, we touched on clean energy’s blind spot. What do you think the industry still needs to learn?

Jan Andersen:
I’ll start by saying it’s always easier to be critical, and the industry has done a lot of things really well. There are many talented people working toward the right goals.

That said, I do think some of those good intentions can get in the way.

There’s a tendency in the industry to believe we are inherently “right”—that we’re doing something noble and therefore should be supported. But that mindset can create blind spots.

For example, the industry has historically aligned more closely with one political party, and we’re seeing the consequences of that now.

At the local level, I think we’ve also underestimated community concerns. For many people, issues like climate change are not their top priority. They’re focused on their livelihoods, their land, and making ends meet.

We haven’t always accounted for that reality.

Opposition groups understand this and are very effective. They play to win. They engage emotionally and strategically, while the industry often relies on facts and data alone.

But facts alone don’t change minds. These situations are often transactional. Communities are being asked to take on perceived burdens, and even if there are broader benefits, those aren’t always felt locally.

I think we’ve missed that.

We also need to be more thoughtful in how we communicate. Sometimes we oversimplify or present statistics in ways that don’t fully reflect reality, and that can undermine credibility.

Another major issue is underinvestment—both in community engagement and in political strategy.

Compared to other industries, we are simply not investing at the same level. And whether we like it or not, this is a space where participation matters.

If you’re not investing, you’re not really competing.

Melissa Baldwin:
You said a lot there that really resonates with conversations we’ve been having. One analogy I’ve heard is: in an argument, no one wins by pulling out a fact sheet.

Jan Andersen:
Exactly. That’s not how people think or make decisions.

Melissa Baldwin:
Right. And we’re seeing more developers starting to recognize this, especially as projects face increasing pushback.

Jan Andersen:
Yes—moratoriums, for example. Many of those situations could have been avoided with earlier investment in communities and engagement.

Melissa Baldwin:
And some still say they don’t want to engage in politics, but the reality is that politics will engage them regardless.

Jan Andersen:
Exactly. Energy infrastructure is inherently political.

Transmission Siting and Permitting: How Linear Development Differs

Melissa Baldwin:
You mentioned moratoriums. You’re dealing with transmission lines—how is that different from renewable projects?

Jan Andersen:
I think there’s a substantial difference between wind and solar projects and linear development, which is what we do.

With wind farms, solar installations, or storage projects, you’re typically dealing with one or maybe two counties. With transmission, we might be dealing with five or six.

And while you can move a turbine slightly to avoid someone’s property, that’s much harder with transmission lines. If you have to reroute around something, even by a small distance, each additional mile can cost three to four million dollars.

That creates challenges both from a development and a permitting perspective. When you’re working across multiple counties—or even multiple states—you’re managing a lot more negotiations.

You also have to be consistent. If you offer something in one jurisdiction, you may need to offer the same elsewhere, because communities communicate with each other.

We’re not yet seeing the same level of highly visible local opposition that wind and solar projects sometimes face. There is still opposition, and environmental groups often engage in the process.

However, if projects are sited correctly—particularly within existing transmission corridors—the impact tends to be smaller, and opposition is often reduced.

For all the criticism we can make, I do think the current administration is one of the first to seriously attempt permit reform. They appear more focused on getting things done than trying to satisfy every stakeholder.

In the past, the number of competing interests has often slowed progress to the point where projects stall entirely.

Permit Reform and the Current Administration: A Cautious Optimism

Melissa Baldwin:
Is there any specific policy related to transmission siting that you’re following?

Jan Andersen:
I wouldn’t say there’s a single policy we’re focused on. We try to pay attention to all of them.

We’re fortunate to be a small and nimble company, which allows us to adapt. Regardless of how policies evolve, we can usually find ways to navigate them and identify opportunities.

We don’t operate under a single rigid philosophy, which gives us flexibility as the landscape changes.

Hiring at Jubilee: Culture Over Credentials

Melissa Baldwin:
Nice. I’m going to transition to a different topic. I want to talk about hiring and firing.You mentioned you’re a smaller company. Do you still participate in the hiring process? And if so, do you have a go-to interview question?

Jan Andersen:
Yes, I participate in every hire.

I don’t have a single go-to question, but I do have specific things I look for. Generally speaking, if someone is in the interview stage, they are already qualified. At that point, we’re no longer testing whether they can answer questions correctly—we know they can.

What we focus on is how they solve problems. We ask hypothetical questions—often related to grid modeling or similar challenges—and explore how they would approach a situation.

Who would they involve? How would they structure the solution? How long would they expect it to take?

At the end of the day, especially as a small company, cultural fit matters a lot. Put simply: are they someone people want to work with?

Company culture can be just as important as technical expertise. You can’t have someone who insists on doing everything themselves, even if they’re highly capable.

We’re in a stage where we can meaningfully shape culture, which becomes harder as organizations grow. The people we hire now will likely become future leaders in the company.

So in many ways, hiring the right person matters as much as hiring the right skill set.

Marketing Without a Marketing Team: Relationships and Industry Network

Melissa Baldwin:
Let me ask you about marketing. You mentioned you don’t have a marketing team—so how do you generate new business?

Jan Andersen:
I do have a marketing background, so we’re not completely without that perspective.

That said, we don’t do much proactive marketing beyond local engagement—meeting landowners, sharing materials, and having direct conversations.

We benefit from experience. Our team has been in the industry for a long time, and over time, you build a network. We can usually reach the right people at utilities or organizations, and often we already know them.

We’ve also built a reputation for being straightforward and professional, so people take our calls.

Another key factor is that we show up with solutions. We’re not trying to sell another generation project—we’re addressing a known problem: the need for transmission.

Utilities understand they need more transmission, but they often lack the resources or regulatory flexibility to take on early-stage development risk.

That’s where we come in. We take on that early-stage risk, invest our own capital, and move projects forward.

When we engage with utilities, it becomes a collaborative conversation. They’ll often refine or redirect ideas, and that back-and-forth is incredibly valuable.

That kind of dialogue is, frankly, a bit of a lost art in the industry.

Recruiting, Interns, and Building From Berkeley

Melissa Baldwin:
In recruiting, what types of roles are you hiring for?

Jan Andersen:
It varies. We’re a small team, so roles range widely.

Recently, we hired a vice president of grid modeling. We also have senior directors and recently brought on a CFO, which, frankly, helped get spreadsheets off my desk.

We’ve also had great success hiring interns, particularly from UC Berkeley. Over the past summer, we had three interns, and at least two are likely to join full-time.

They’re talented, hardworking, and bring fresh perspectives. We also have the opportunity to mentor them and help shape their development early in their careers.

Learning and Development: Local Knowledge and Lessons from Experience

Melissa Baldwin:
Is there any training, book, or experience that has been especially influential for you?

Jan Andersen:
One of the most impactful experiences for me came about a decade ago when I was part of a team permitting the first wind farm in Florida.

Before I went there, our regional head gave me a book called A Land Remembered. It’s widely read in Florida and tells the story of the state’s development over time.

Reading it gave me a deeper understanding of local culture—how communities evolved, how different groups interacted, and what shaped the region.

Since then, I’ve made it a habit to read books about the areas where I’m working. Not textbooks, but narratives that help me understand people and place.

That has helped tremendously. When you can connect with people and show a genuine understanding of their background, it builds trust.

Melissa Baldwin:

That makes a lot of sense. Especially in rural communities, there can be skepticism toward developers, so taking the time to understand local culture really matters.

Work-Life Balance: Protecting Time With Family

Melissa Baldwin:
As a CEO, how do you maintain your performance and balance your workload?

Jan Andersen:
It can be challenging. Anyone in leadership faces that.

I do work long hours, including nights and weekends at times, but I’m very intentional about protecting time with my family.

There are parts of the day where I put my phone down—during dinner, when coaching my son’s soccer team, or spending time with my daughter.

I learned that the hard way. Earlier in my career, I was entirely focused on work. Then suddenly, your kids are older, and you realize how much you’ve missed.

Now, I prioritize that time.

I also spend time riding my horse, which is something I’m passionate about. It gives me a sense of calm.

And when possible, we travel—whether to vineyards, beaches, or forests. Those experiences help recharge.

Keeping the Team Motivated: Ownership, Culture, and Team Engagement

Melissa Baldwin:
How do you keep your team motivated, especially during tough times?

Jan Andersen:
From day one, we created incentives that give team members ownership in the company and its projects.

They’re not just working toward a distant outcome—they benefit directly from project success. In fact, team members are compensated from project outcomes before leadership or investors.

That creates real alignment and motivation.

We also make an effort to bring the team together regularly. Even though we’re geographically distributed, we meet in person every couple of months.

Those gatherings focus heavily on relationship-building—dinners, social time, and shared experiences.

This summer, we’re planning a trip to a ranch in Colorado near one of our projects, so the team can connect with both the work and each other.

The more people know each other personally, the more invested they are in supporting one another.

Climate Optimist or Pessimist: Challenges, Realism, and Hope

Melissa Baldwin:
Has your work made you more of a climate optimist or pessimist?

Jan Andersen:
Probably a bit of both.

I do think we’re behind. At a global level—and even within the U.S.—we’re unlikely to meet many of our climate goals on time.

There are too many barriers to building the infrastructure we need.

That’s concerning, and it’s one of the most important challenges of our time. If we don’t address it, future generations will feel the impact.

At the same time, I see reasons for optimism.

More people recognize the problem and believe in solutions. Younger generations are especially engaged and thoughtful about these issues.

Technology is advancing, and efficiencies are improving.

So while the situation is challenging, I don’t think it’s hopeless.

Melissa Baldwin:
I can relate to that. I’ve been working in climate for over 20 years, and while my perspective has evolved, I still see things every day that give me hope.

Jan Andersen:
I’ve probably become a bit more cynical with age—but hopefully not too much.

Closing Remarks

Melissa Baldwin:
I’ve really enjoyed this conversation. There’s so much value in what you’ve shared, and I personally learn a lot from speaking with leaders like you.

Thank you for your time.

Jan Andersen:
Thank you.